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jdpas29
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 Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| yeah i wasn't happy about our fans booing the team last night. that really ticked me off.
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bamafan4ever
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| alagator wrote: | | Bama1966 wrote: | | ...Everyone has their way of being a fan. Alabama's fan base is second to no one. We pack that stadium year in and year out. That says something. Inner fueding among the fan base is nothing more than Rival bulletin board material. Thats my belief. |
This is something more worthy of a general discussion in June than now, but there is no way I would remember or think to bring it up in June. This is not to imply that I think UA football has all the traits I list below, but here goes...
Is a fan base that continues to pour money into a program mired in mediocrity that does not demand internal excellence really a 'good fan' of that program?
Is a fan base that continues to buy tickets and pack the stadium for a program that has a habit of hiring and/or retaining key personnel based on little (or nothing in some cases) qualifications or demonstrated accomplishments and that achieves very little respective to the amount of advantages and resources provided really a 'good' fan base? Or are they enablers instead?
Take the Chicago Cubs for instance. For decades Cubs fans filled Wrigley Field and bought Cubs merchandise in record numbers. Actually accepting the term 'The Loveable Losers.' Was that fan base truly helpful to the goal of winning championships? What motivation did the ownership of the Cubs have to spend money on scouting and player development and compete salary-wise for free agents? Revenues were virtually maxed out. Why take risks with the bottom line when there is little to no financial reward to be had. What personal consequences were applied to the owners and senior executives of the club for failing to produce a championship calibre club year after year after year after year...
Might we say the same with Alabama football over the last decade plus? Beginning with the probation scandal created by Stallings and Ingram, through the debacle of DuBose, through the failed coaching searches of Franchoine-Price-Shula our fans bought tickets in record numbers, bought jerseys in record numbers, and filled Bryant-Denny in record numbers. Did we ever really put any financial pressure on the people entrusted to manage 'our' program effectively?
In many instances, not only did we not hold our own people accountable for their destructive actions, we actually took efforts to support and defend and reward them because they were once touched by The Coach himself. We, like many other fans, are too quick to say 'because he is our guy you are not a real fan if you criticize his behavior/decision (there is a potential bitter discussion brewing on a UF forum about Meyer being classless last night by keeping the first-team offense in the game with under two minutes remaining and throwing the ball into the end zone - most are defending the indefensible conduct, so UA fans are not unique or alone). Would not a real fan of the program have been or be more openly critical of conduct/behavior that is unacceptable than excusing same? And demand more from everyone from the second-string waterboy to the star WR to the Head Coach to the Athletic Director to the Board of Trustees?
Again, I am not saying we are a 'bad' fanbase - or even different from many devoted to 'their team.' This is really intended more as a philosophical debating point on what is truly beneficial conduct and not. |
I have to say, that is a different take on things than I have ever seen stated in any article or message forum post. I can say that you gave me some pause thinking about the fan base being "enablers". I certainly don't think our fan base intends to be enablers. I think they just are very supportive of their team and cling to hope from the past and what the future may bring. It's that same spirit and support that has been around the football program since Wallace Wade took his Southern squad to the Rose Bowl in the face of media critics and haters of the South. Our fan base has seen Alabama defy the odds throughout her history and they just hope to be part of the "next time it happens".
I am afraid the enabling is just an unfortunate by-product and not the intention of a rabid fan base.
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Doemasters
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| my thoughts of the fans at the game in section n5? If you want to sit down thats fine but dont ask me to, they actually asked the usher to see if the people would sit down and i gladly told him if I wanted to sit down I would have stayed my butt home on the couch
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alagator
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| bamafan4ever wrote: | I have to say, that is a different take on things than I have ever seen stated in any article or message forum post. I can say that you gave me some pause thinking about the fan base being "enablers". I certainly don't think our fan base intends to be enablers. I think they just are very supportive of their team and cling to hope from the past and what the future may bring. It's that same spirit and support that has been around the football program since Wallace Wade took his Southern squad to the Rose Bowl in the face of media critics and haters of the South. Our fan base has seen Alabama defy the odds throughout her history and they just hope to be part of the "next time it happens".
I am afraid the enabling is just an unfortunate by-product and not the intention of a rabid fan base. |
Well, I hope you do not think that different take is too far off the deep end.
It is even not really directed at or limited to UA - and I hope that is clear. I just use us as one of two examples.
It kind of goes along the line is it really poor fan conduct to actually sometimes STOP providing financial and emotional support for their team if that detachment causes long-term change. Would a little less short-term hope and clinging (to borrow your phrase) result in a more intense need to act NOW by the management of your favorite team. (For instance, would the Cubs ownership not have spent decades spending less money on scouting and player development if Wrigley Field was 1/3 full instead of sold out? Would our Board of Trustees have hired and retained ineffective athletic department leadership if 40,000 showed up at Bryant-Denny every on gamedays instead of 90,000?)
And I do not think fans intend to be enablers, but I would argue than many times the unintended consequence is just such behavior. Is this a clear example of 'The Law of Unintended Consequences?'
Again, I wish this had come up in the off-season when we would have the time to sit around and chat about the issues.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Bama1966 wrote: |
I guess I got ruined on the Coach Bryant days, where we beat the hell out of every team, and if we lost, they put a effort on the field that atleast made you proud. I keep thinking we have that mentality only to be slapped back into reality again with the Tulane's and ULM's. Its going to take time, and I see that, I will not be complacent. Our team needs to focus each week on winning the game, and the rest will fall in place. Give forth 100% no matter what. |
We are all ruined on that fact. We are not supposed to think mediocrity. We are supposed to have a National Championship state of mind always, There are very few teams in the nation that have that kind of tradition. Look at GA that is on top of the charts. They have one NC. Thats a long way away from our tradition. Yes the SEC is the best in the nation, however that only makes our case stronger.
"Get up your killing the grass" is a mantra that an old coach said to me many times when I was playing football. As a fan I can and will get up to support the team. The prize is the next NC. All we can do as a fan is to "give forth 100% "no matter what." Is there any other team in the nation that is working on number 13? We are not supposed to be satisfied with mediocrity. We're true winners in the flesh and blood. We can't accept anything less because we're Alabama.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Wake up call for the boys to keep em grounded.... Bama got a W!!!!! RTR!!!!!
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bamafan4ever
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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| alagator wrote: | | bamafan4ever wrote: | I have to say, that is a different take on things than I have ever seen stated in any article or message forum post. I can say that you gave me some pause thinking about the fan base being "enablers". I certainly don't think our fan base intends to be enablers. I think they just are very supportive of their team and cling to hope from the past and what the future may bring. It's that same spirit and support that has been around the football program since Wallace Wade took his Southern squad to the Rose Bowl in the face of media critics and haters of the South. Our fan base has seen Alabama defy the odds throughout her history and they just hope to be part of the "next time it happens".
I am afraid the enabling is just an unfortunate by-product and not the intention of a rabid fan base. |
Well, I hope you do not think that different take is too far off the deep end.
It is even not really directed at or limited to UA - and I hope that is clear. I just use us as one of two examples.
It kind of goes along the line is it really poor fan conduct to actually sometimes STOP providing financial and emotional support for their team if that detachment causes long-term change. Would a little less short-term hope and clinging (to borrow your phrase) result in a more intense need to act NOW by the management of your favorite team. (For instance, would the Cubs ownership not have spent decades spending less money on scouting and player development if Wrigley Field was 1/3 full instead of sold out? Would our Board of Trustees have hired and retained ineffective athletic department leadership if 40,000 showed up at Bryant-Denny every on gamedays instead of 90,000?)
And I do not think fans intend to be enablers, but I would argue than many times the unintended consequence is just such behavior. Is this a clear example of 'The Law of Unintended Consequences?'
Again, I wish this had come up in the off-season when we would have the time to sit around and chat about the issues. |
No, I didn't think this take was too far off the deep end at all I just have never heard it presented this way and concur with what you are saying. With this ever-hopeful fan base of ours, I just don't see things ever changing with regard to support during thick and thin. Now basketball, on the other hand, is an entirely different story.
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billfish
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Folks....we're 2-0 and the nice thing is we are only going to get better. I look at this Alabama team and compare it to the rows in a Great White Shark Jaw....eventually, when the shark loses a tooth another one simply fills in. In 2 years we will be deep and talented. We are getting pretty good right now imho. RTR
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Bamapossum
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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Fans tend to have selective memories and the current expectations are a result of desires for unrealistic expectations.
There has not been a single team in the NCAA for the past twenty years that has not had a season marked by ups and downs. USC would be the closest to having a consistent team, but they have had their fair share of embarassing losses as well. They are also so deep in talent that they could play their 2nd string and win 90% of their games.
The 1960's and 1970's dominance will not happen again because of scholarship reductions and parity. PERIOD. Those of us who got to watch that era should be proud to have seen it, but it's not coming back.
Bama still has depth issues at some positions. It is going to take two or three more years of balls out recruiting to even sniff the kind of domination that most fans desire. Whining about wins, ugly or not, is contrary to helping the program. While I don't think forums are a major player, I do know that what goes on in them sometimes does leak to recruits and media. Goode decommitted from Kentucky and came to Alabama because of the negativity he read on their boards.
Time to shut up and let em play. I hope those that booed last night didn't scare off any of the recruits who were present. Especially Trent Richardson.
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rammajamma
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Doemasters wrote: | | my thoughts of the fans at the game in section n5? If you want to sit down thats fine but dont ask me to, they actually asked the usher to see if the people would sit down and i gladly told him if I wanted to sit down I would have stayed my butt home on the couch |
I was in section N so we weren't too far away from each other. The section that I sat in was Tide Pride and they were pretty quiet for the most part. I have to say that when we play smaller schools, our stadium is not the loudest place to be in. I don't know if that is true at every school or if its just us. If we had been playing LSU, TN, AK etc. the place would have been nuts.
This is the kind of game that makes being a Alabama fan sort of difficult. Either you watch the team blow Tulane out of the stadium and sit there bored until you finally get up and leave, or its a close game and you get mad because we are not winning by enough points. Now here is my take on this game.
First, if I was a betting man, I could probably be rich. Almost every team in college football seems to experience what we went through last night. If you win a big game the week before like we did against Clemson, you almost always let down and play not so good against a little team like Tulane. No matter how much you preach or say that every game is important, its hard to get as excited about playing a game against Tulane, W. Kentucky, La Tech, or whoever you want to fill in the blank with. I miss playing Southern Mississippi. They are a smaller school but we do have respect for their football program so it usually made for a interesting game. Anyway, I wouldn't mind seeing Bama drop playing games like this and start putting teams like Texas Tech, Arizona, Texas A and M, or whoever on the schedule. I mean, LSU showed that a two loss team could win a National Championship and I wouldn't mind leaving the cream puff games off the schedule all together. I mean, wouldn't it be cool to play Michigan State?
Second I want to point out that since they changed the rules about recruiting, smaller teams are getting some good players. Louisana is loaded with talent and its not hard to understand how Tulane might have some good players. From what I saw, Tulane looked really good. Did you see that hit they put on Javier? Their DB's gave us fits all night long. They have one heck of a D! To be displaced for a entire week, have to spend time practicing in a city you are not used to and then come to our stadium and play us like they did is quite a accomplishment.
Third I wanted to talk about the fans. BDS holds over 90k. Thats a lot of people. I am not like every Bama fan in the world. None of us are. I can not control how our fans act in the stadium, off the field, calling Paul Finebaum, on message boards, or anything else. We have some good fans and some bad fans. It has bothered me ever since I can remember, that our fans love to leave the stadium before the game is over with. Whats the freakin hurry? I could understand it more if we were winning 50 to nothing but in a game like that I was pretty glued to my seat until it was over. But I can not control them leaving early. They bought a ticket just like I did so if thats what they want to do then I say bye bye. I for one am glad some of them leave.
I was really proud that they all clapped for Tulane coming on the field at the start of the game and right after half time. Booing the other team is pretty common and I admit that I have done it too, but it is a lot more classy the way we did it Saturday. I mean these are 18-22 year old students not the Iron Sheik for goodness sake. Really if you think about it, booing them probably gets them fired up to play us. The Bible teaches that being nice to your enemy gets under their skin a lot more than being ugly to them.
Now on the other hand, booing our own team is not acceptable. I don't condone it but I do understand it in a way. Its like the fan's way of saying, "hey quit playing so sucky".
Forth, I think that this game really shows how our biggest weakness is still lack of depth. We had the number one recruiting class in the country this year. Give it 3 more years and we will be 4 deep loaded up with 5 star players. The process will work, just not over night. Give it a minute aight?
Fifth, I want to say that I am impressed with how we improved on special teams. That was what actually saved us this game. I just pray that Tiffin stays healthy.
Finally and probably most importantly, I want to say WE ARE NOT FREAKIN BACK! This is how you will know when we are BACK
1. We beat Auburn.
2. We win the SEC West.
3. We win the SEC championship game.
I would also throw in winning another National Championship, but sometimes thats beyond your control even if you win all of your games (see Auburn in 2004). So lets get a little more consistent before we declare ourselves "back" again aight?
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bamafan4ever
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:41 am Post subject: |
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| rammajamma wrote: | | Doemasters wrote: | | my thoughts of the fans at the game in section n5? If you want to sit down thats fine but dont ask me to, they actually asked the usher to see if the people would sit down and i gladly told him if I wanted to sit down I would have stayed my butt home on the couch |
I was in section N so we weren't too far away from each other. The section that I sat in was Tide Pride and they were pretty quiet for the most part. I have to say that when we play smaller schools, our stadium is not the loudest place to be in. I don't know if that is true at every school or if its just us. If we had been playing LSU, TN, AK etc. the place would have been nuts.
This is the kind of game that makes being a Alabama fan sort of difficult. Either you watch the team blow Tulane out of the stadium and sit there bored until you finally get up and leave, or its a close game and you get mad because we are not winning by enough points. Now here is my take on this game.
First, if I was a betting man, I could probably be rich. Almost every team in college football seems to experience what we went through last night. If you win a big game the week before like we did against Clemson, you almost always let down and play not so good against a little team like Tulane. No matter how much you preach or say that every game is important, its hard to get as excited about playing a game against Tulane, W. Kentucky, La Tech, or whoever you want to fill in the blank with. I miss playing Southern Mississippi. They are a smaller school but we do have respect for their football program so it usually made for a interesting game. Anyway, I wouldn't mind seeing Bama drop playing games like this and start putting teams like Texas Tech, Arizona, Texas A and M, or whoever on the schedule. I mean, LSU showed that a two loss team could win a National Championship and I wouldn't mind leaving the cream puff games off the schedule all together. I mean, wouldn't it be cool to play Michigan State?
Second I want to point out that since they changed the rules about recruiting, smaller teams are getting some good players. Louisana is loaded with talent and its not hard to understand how Tulane might have some good players. From what I saw, Tulane looked really good. Did you see that hit they put on Javier? Their DB's gave us fits all night long. They have one heck of a D! To be displaced for a entire week, have to spend time practicing in a city you are not used to and then come to our stadium and play us like they did is quite a accomplishment.
Third I wanted to talk about the fans. BDS holds over 90k. Thats a lot of people. I am not like every Bama fan in the world. None of us are. I can not control how our fans act in the stadium, off the field, calling Paul Finebaum, on message boards, or anything else. We have some good fans and some bad fans. It has bothered me ever since I can remember, that our fans love to leave the stadium before the game is over with. Whats the freakin hurry? I could understand it more if we were winning 50 to nothing but in a game like that I was pretty glued to my seat until it was over. But I can not control them leaving early. They bought a ticket just like I did so if thats what they want to do then I say bye bye. I for one am glad some of them leave.
I was really proud that they all clapped for Tulane coming on the field at the start of the game and right after half time. Booing the other team is pretty common and I admit that I have done it too, but it is a lot more classy the way we did it Saturday. I mean these are 18-22 year old students not the Iron Sheik for goodness sake. Really if you think about it, booing them probably gets them fired up to play us. The Bible teaches that being nice to your enemy gets under their skin a lot more than being ugly to them.
Now on the other hand, booing our own team is not acceptable. I don't condone it but I do understand it in a way. Its like the fan's way of saying, "hey quit playing so sucky".
Forth, I think that this game really shows how our biggest weakness is still lack of depth. We had the number one recruiting class in the country this year. Give it 3 more years and we will be 4 deep loaded up with 5 star players. The process will work, just not over night. Give it a minute aight?
Fifth, I want to say that I am impressed with how we improved on special teams. That was what actually saved us this game. I just pray that Tiffin stays healthy.
Finally and probably most importantly, I want to say WE ARE NOT FREAKIN BACK! This is how you will know when we are BACK
1. We beat Auburn.
2. We win the SEC West.
3. We win the SEC championship game.
I would also throw in winning another National Championship, but sometimes thats beyond your control even if you win all of your games (see Auburn in 2004). So lets get a little more consistent before we declare ourselves "back" again aight? |
"Because people have a tendency to that around here"....Nick Saban.
Good post rj!!!
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Optimus
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| rammajamma wrote: |
Finally and probably most importantly, I want to say WE ARE NOT FREAKIN BACK! This is how you will know when we are BACK
1. We beat Auburn.
2. We win the SEC West.
3. We win the SEC championship game.
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Amen! Don't forget beating that other sorry arse colors of purple and gold and Vol orange. Perfect season then!
*note all pics are from LSU freak & BC . Man those guys are funny!
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BamaDelta
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| rammajamma wrote: | Finally and probably most importantly, I want to say WE ARE NOT FREAKIN BACK! This is how you will know when we are BACK
1. We beat Auburn.
2. We win the SEC West.
3. We win the SEC championship game.
I would also throw in winning another National Championship, but sometimes thats beyond your control even if you win all of your games (see Auburn in 2004). So lets get a little more consistent before we declare ourselves "back" again aight? |
Thank you!
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BamaDelta
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:10 am Post subject: |
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| bamafan4ever wrote: | | rammajamma wrote: | | So lets get a little more consistent before we declare ourselves "back" again aight? |
"Because people have a tendency to that around here"....Nick Saban.
Good post rj!!! |
Alabama wasn't the one that put itself on the SI cover twice now after big wins. 
I know what you're saying 4ever, (and I don't mean to offend) but the media sometimes plays just a big if not bigger part in all this yet then turns around and makes fun of us and states we can't get past the past.
I really think the media is quietly waiting for us to be "back". Maybe they're tired of USC; maybe they're ready for a traditional power again; I don't know. Maybe they're just ready to sabotage and jinx us at every turn (for all of you that fall into that thinking) ...but for as much as they criticize us we're obviously still headline material.
Ooops, after re-reading the quote 4ever (which I thought was your opinion) it looks like I need to address this with Coach Saban instead of you.  
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bamafan4ever
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| BamaDelta wrote: | | bamafan4ever wrote: | | rammajamma wrote: | | So lets get a little more consistent before we declare ourselves "back" again aight? |
"Because people have a tendency to that around here"....Nick Saban.
Good post rj!!! |
Alabama wasn't the one that put itself on the SI cover twice now after big wins.
I know what you're saying 4ever, (and I don't mean to offend) but the media sometimes plays just a big if not bigger part in all this yet then turns around and makes fun of us and states we can't get past the past.
I really think the media is quietly waiting for us to be "back". Maybe they're tired of USC; maybe they're ready for a traditional power again; I don't know. Maybe they're just ready to sabotage and jinx us at every turn (for all of you that fall into that thinking) ...but for as much as they criticize us we're obviously still headline material.
Ooops, after re-reading the quote 4ever (which I thought was your opinion) it looks like I need to address this with Coach Saban instead of you. |
No problem, Delta. I must have big feet this weekend/week because I have inadvertently stepped on a lot of toes this week talking about this subject.
Sometimes I wonder if the media builds us up for a collapse? The good news, no collapse has happened so far and who knows? It may not!
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